Trail Buddy

[honda191]

We ship bikes to Canada all the time with no problems, you have to pay some extra duties but we have all the details worked out.. The bikes we sell (the Pro- Model) have been selling in Europe for many years and seem to be lasting just fine there I 'm not sure why someone would think they wouldn't give you many years of service here in North America?. My original prototypes were purchased in 2005 and trail ridden with nothing but abuse and they still work great! The only problems we had with the bikes were a rear hub snap ring breaking and the foot pegs were junk. The snap ring holding the rear sprocket design has been eliminated in our new bikes and we use aluminum billet machined foot pegs. The frames are perfect quality, the paint is the best I have ever seen on a Chines made bike.

[swanni06]

I don`t have a problem with clones like others do.I think they are just as good as the original if you get a good clone.

[nascarnate326]

I have been talking with them about a Lifan motor for my bike, and they have been a dream to work with. I just cant decide what motor to go with. Im lucky, that they are just about 90 miles away so I plan to take my bike to their place for some pics when I go get the new motor

[SS_canuck]

I've had good luck with buying parts from them. If you plan on plating the bike for road use, I'm not sure what sort of difficulty you will encounter trying to get it plated in Ontario. Getting an original Honda frame plated may be much easier. You could certainly purchase a complete bike and transfer components to a MTO registered original frame. It costs tons more(trust me, I'd do my CT build differently the second time) to piece together a similarly equipped Honda frame from different vendors. You will have to pay duties at customs. I beleive that only US and Canada built bikes are exempt (even original CT's because they are built in Japan are subject to import duties).

You will have Honda purists (I'm trying to use that term in a nice way) telling you that using cheap PRC components on your CT is not the way to build a bike. You do get what you pay for! But, if you are mechanically inclined and stay on top of your bike's condition you can see some good useage out of these components.

Going the Chinese parts way is a excellent way to get into this hobby.

Last week when bailed hard racing off-road and tweaked one of my new trailbuddy handle bars, I'd be a lot more bent out of shape I that had happened to an expensive, hard to find NOS part!

Matt

[ez50]

Well said canuck
We all fit somewhere in the Mini world. I happen to be somewhat of an OEM purist and fairly protective of what I have. I couldn't bring myself to ride hard on the trails with the bike I have. When parts are available and relatively cheap it's much easier to ride hard.
My older bro told me a story not too long ago about how hard it was to get $10 together for a new handle bar. That was in the early to mid 70's. OEM's were disposable back then like PRC parts today.
$10 was hard for a kid back then, but wouldn't it be nice for a middle aged man now.
Yes there is a place for Trailbuddy in the CT world.

[mlanting]

These guys are out of Harrow Ontario, and they sell the 70cc Lifan trail bike. It's not shown on their website, but if you call them, they will talk . . . they don't return my email messages though.

www(dot)ashko(dot)com

[racerx]

Originally Posted by ez50

Well said canuck
We all fit somewhere in the Mini world. I happen to be somewhat of an OEM purist and fairly protective of what I have. I couldn't bring myself to ride hard on the trails with the bike I have. When parts are available and relatively cheap it's much easier to ride hard.
My older bro told me a story not too long ago about how hard it was to get $10 together for a new handle bar. That was in the early to mid 70's. OEM's were disposable back then like PRC parts today.
$10 was hard for a kid back then, but wouldn't it be nice for a middle aged man now.
Yes there is a place for Trailbuddy in the CT world.

Yes, there's room for everyone in the small bike world. However, what you've laid-out illustrates just how apples/oranges the comparisions have become. That 1970 sawbuck is a C-note in 2008 dollars. Care to take a guess at the time/inflation adjusted cost of chrome The question is: where were the cost cuts made to deliver seemingly identical parts for a fraction of the cost? It's not where items are made but to what cost/quality spec and who's in charge of Q/C. In the early `70s, we didn't expect competent 55mph road cruising ability. That alone requires huge upgrades in braking, suspension and engine output...plus, we're no longer kids & should now know the difference between what works & what doesn't. It's never too late to have a happy childhood, the cost of realizing that goal just increases steadily over time.

I've been into the small bike scene since the CT70 was a new model and have watched intently as knockoff/clone bikes hit the market and evolved over the past decade. Circa 2001 I was ready to buy a 110-powered knockoff...until I saw one in-person and actually took it for a test ride. I've kept an eye on the "latest & greatest" ever since. That I never bought one has nothing to do with "purism" or any such pseudo-religion. It's been 100% pragmatic decision-making. Maybe I'm a pure pragmatist?
As for "perfect quality", even my wife can spot a knockoff bike

That explanation of hub failure is a huge red flag. Exactly WHY did the hubs fail? The "fix" is almost as scary as the original, cost-reduced re-design. Funny, you never hear this about the OEM Honda parts. Could this be a tacit admission that there are some clear differences? Most that I've seen have been loss of details, cheezy finishing and small part problems (switches, cables, fasteners, speedo, electrical gremlins). However, there have been some significant safety-related issues, such as hubs and alloy swingarms and the failures, at road speeds, have ranged from scary to tragic. Details & pix available, but I'd prefer not taking things in that direction. For some, the lowest-cost option might be the best one. Just go in with your eyes open and know what you're getting. Too much month leftover at the end of the money is easily understood. That said, the smallest pricetag doesn't always translate into the biggest bang-for-the-buck any more than the largest one necessarily denotes the best quality. There's a lot more involved than just price and/or brand name. Three guesses as to who gets to live with the purchase decision...

[honda191]

Ok racer X it's time to set the record straight-- When I say the quality is "perfect" that is exactly what I mean! I have over 30 years experience in the quality field as an Engineer most of the time being in Automotive making precision engine components for one of the largest suppliers in North America. I think I know a little bit about Quality when I make the statement. The rear hub issue was a problem with clone bikes ever since they were made it failed on my 2 proto-types as well. We identified a problem and eliminated it through a redesign and tested the fix in the trails under extreme conditions before adding it to our bikes and releasing them to the public. Have you ever personally seen one of our bikes up close?? I don't think it is possible because we just brought the first 30 into the country in late August and we are the only importer of this bike in North America and Canada. There are other manufacturers but they are not at all close to the quality of this bike. I can say this because we are also a Lifan Dealer and sell their replica putting them side by side not even close to ours. The Lifan bike is a good bike for the money and has its place in the market is serves. We are launching the "Ultimate Trailbuddy" for 09 without giving too much detail I can tell you this there has never been a bike like this available anywhere. Remember when there was a post what the ultimate trail 70 would be maybe last year? Well I took your input and am having a bike made to be a close match to your specs by the same company building our present bikes. I just want to say I respect your views and your knowledge of precision restorations your purple bike is one of the most beautiful bikes I have ever seen and your parts appear to be of the highest quality. But that is not our market right now. We are trying to work with only the best factory's in China I have an associate from my department at work who has been living there for over a year and visits our manufactures for me to verify their quality and capabilities. We are trying to bring the highest quality components that are affordable to the average Joe restorer. We test everything we sell some win and some loose the losers are never purchased for sale to the public and we never compromize when it comes to safety. I would very much like you to take a spin over to Zeeland and check out our bikes then post an educated evaluation call me 616-890-6556 any time to set this up we are only 2 1/2 hours from Detroit in Zeeland Michigan..

[TrailRyd3r]

Wow...

First off. I want to say I happy I am with TrailBuddy, you guys are making some sweet products and very high quality stuff with good prices. I have ordered multiple times and they have the best service. They made my bike Top Bike for a week, which I was so stoked about. The bikes they sell are top of the line reproductions. There TrailBuddy Pro bike is nothing like I have seen before, I want one so bad, but I am going to wait for the ultimate

Like I have stated many times. Our reproductions have stood up to abuse and hard riding, I dont baby my bike, I ride the crap out of it. Stuff on Hondas break, and stuff on reproductions break too. Sometimes you can replace the broken parts with Honda stuff, sometimes with chinese parts. In my opinion it dont really matter to me. They all come from the same place.

Everyone has their opinion on chinese parts and reproduction bikes, but the fact is, we ride them everyday, work on them all the time, we know the flaws and we know the strengths. These bikes were not meant to replace the Honda, I know that, but they are there for people that want a nice new bike with out paying big $$ for a restored original.

We have both originals and clones. We love both, and want people to like what they like. If everyone rode the same thing, it would be a boring world

[racerx]

Overall, I have to agree with trailryd3r. That also supports what I said previously...it's apples & oranges. Rather than digging into details, I tried to point out that there are different market segments. Where lines are crossed and blurred, needless conflict arises. You seem to be intent upon escalating things with vague, specious, statements. Your marketing is clear to anyone who knows what's out there, no problem. Since 1970, I have gained at least as much experience at the design/production level; there's just a little automotive talent on this side of the state, too. Additionally, I still deal with both the automotive and bike sides of things, globally; even have contacts in PRC and an all-too-good understanding of the intricacies involved. Can of worms? More like nest of snakes.

If you've followed along, then no doubt you've noticed the question of how high quality finished parts/assemblies can be retailed for less than the cost of high quality aluminum alloy - which is sold as a commodity, i.e. global pricing. Or, how an engine can wholesale for less than a set of engine bearings and clutch discs? We both know the answers to those questions. Playing devil's advocate, for a brief moment, and assuming that you've somehow, miraculously, been able to transcend the laws of global commodities trading - why so vague & completely lacking in details? I am perplexed and have a few questions.

When I say the quality is "perfect" that is exactly what I mean!

Really, what quality level did you spec? I have involvement with PRC manufacturers and never has the term "perfect quality" been used. Please explain...

The rear hub issue was a problem with clone bikes ever since they were made it failed on my 2 proto-types as well. We identified a problem and eliminated it through a redesign and tested the fix in the trails under extreme conditions before adding it to our bikes and releasing them to the public.

The hub issue arose across the pond, a year earlier than here. I did post warnings about this at the outset and took some flak for it. Ah...isn't hindsight brutally 20/20? As you alluded, new PRC stuff usually gets rolled out in other countries before hitting our shores. If I got the details wrong, please enlighten the audience with the actual details of the problem and the fix.

Have you ever personally seen one of our bikes up close?? I don't think it is possible because we just brought the first 30 into the country in late August and we are the only importer of this bike in North America and Canada. There are other manufacturers but they are not at all close to the quality of this bike.

In an earlier post you said you "...shipped them to Canada all the time..." How can that be with the first 30 just arriving? Could this be an example of lines being crossed & blurred? Please fill me in, you've throughly confused me with this one.

We are launching the "Ultimate Trailbuddy" for 09 without giving too much detail I can tell you this there has never been a bike like this available anywhere. Remember when there was a post what the ultimate trail 70 would be maybe last year? Well I took your input and am having a bike made to be a close match to your specs by the same company building our present bikes.

Hmmmmm...You have an exclusive but don't want to release any details, interesting. And what, exactly, are those specs you're copying from a bike, the likes of which has never been available? How do you know that such a bike has never been built? What company is building these for you? This one is coming across like a campaign promise, long on initial impact, devoid of detail. If you've got a world-beater with OEM Honda quality, at a fraction of what those greedy Honda folks would charge, then why not proclaim your triumph to the world - loudly? A bike like that would turn the whole scene upside down, knocking Honda, Kawasaki, et al out of business.

We are trying to work with only the best factory's in China

Why so vague, exactly who might those be? Some of the factories supplying parts I source are Honda, Showa, KYB, et al. All top quality and worth mentioning, not hiding. You have an exclusive, why not take pride in it? Could it be that since China is a communist country everything "belongs to the people" and things like patents & copyrights are basically oxymorons there. Does that, perhaps, preclude having atrue exclusive.

Look, bringing the discussion down to a real world level means acknowledging a lot middle ground, with a few absolutes. Among them are commodity prices and skilled craftsmanship. For example, a pound of 5058 aluminum costs what it costs, period. Cheaper alloys get substituted in the name of cost savings. Engine & suspension engineering is beyond the resources of nearly anyone but an OEM. The only way to make a small fortune on CT70-specific running gear, designed & marketed from the ground up would be to start with a large fortune. Likewise, chrome plating, metalfinishing, custom body work, one-off machining, tuning, etc cost what they cost; there aren't any shortcuts. Thus, the designs are "cloned" and details get cost-reduced out of the finished product; there's still no free lunch. Adapting high-end, existing, pieces is expensive as are low-volume items; none have any place on a low-end bike. We deal with things very differently. Of course, I never made direct comparison until you went there first. What I was mentioning is the fact that there is a lot of variation out there and, regardless of who might disagree with me, still maintain that there's no free lunch, only different compromises. I deal with high-end/high-quality machinery and most of what makes them what they are cannot be easily measured in quantitative terms. That's not everyone's cuppa joe. That said, I don't look down the low-end of the scene; it just holds little interest for me. On the other hand, it's a lot easier to understand the entire range of possibilities once one is thoroughly familiarized with the current state-of-the-art.

We are trying to bring the highest quality components that are affordable to the average Joe restorer.

I think you mean the average guy who just wants a new, clean, rider. The typical restorer wants NOS parts or at least OEM detail, not possible to do on the cheap; it's another, distinct, market segment. So, from opposite ends of the spectrum, we both do what we do, see things from our own perspectives and the world is big enough for both, imo. It's only when something is represented inaccurately that I become motivated to clarify issues. For the record, I have seen a fair cross-section of your items.